How to Buy Holiday Travel Insurance

Things happen, including unexpected things that happen which can spoil your holiday travel plans.

That’s why I always buy travel insurance whenever I book a flight or tour.  This way, if there is a covered family emergency before or while I’m on my trip, or I have a mishap with my luggage or manage to hurt myself, I won’t go broke trying to solve the issue.  Here are some helpful tips to make sure you get the right travel insurance for your next adventure.

You can use my handy Travel Insurance Comparison Link to anonymously check prices and policy coverage quickly and easily.

Not all companies cover all problems that can happen before and after your trip. 

Before purchasing any travel insurance policy, you should understand how the policy will help you if these events occur:

Motor Vehicle Accidents

Your travel insurance policy probably WON’T cover the damage to your vehicle so MAKE SURE if you rent or drive a vehicle that either your normal auto insurance policy covers you WHERE you will be driving. Otherwise, you will need to purchase the very expensive optional insurance that the lender will offer. CHECK BEFORE YOU LEAVE SO YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO!

Also, most travel insurance policies DO NOT COVER motor bikes!  You may need a rider. 

So the bottom line is, your travel insurance should cover the medical costs of the accident, but not the physical damage to the car.  CAVEAT:  You MUST be driving with a valid license for that country (which may mean an international license) AND not be under the influence or otherwise breaking any laws.

Terrorism

There are limits to the terrorism clauses, but if the even is unforeseen, as most terrorist attacks are, then whatever medical or interruption clauses that might be triggered provided you did not book your trip AFTER the terrorist event.

You can’t utilize this clause if you simply get nervous about traveling some place and want to back out of the trip.  Authorities would have to recommend that people no longer advise visiting a place for the trip cancellation or interruption to kick in.  I had assumed, wrongfully, that when I purchased my travel insurance for my upcoming Middle East trip, that if the terrorist threat increased, that my insurance would kick in.  NOT! There would have to be a serious incident in the places that I am going for me to utilize this clause.

 Bottom line is you really need to

READ YOUR POLICY during the (usually 15 day) grace period.

READ YOUR POLICY during the (usually 15 day) grace period.

Lots of claims get denied because people are not following the policy guidelines or terms.  For example, again on my Mid East trip, my trip expanded from my original tour. My policy requires me to be covered from door to door from my house.  So the first policy I paid for is null and void because I am now traveling both before and after. So I learned my lesson. Completely plan my trip BEFORE I buy a policy.  

 

Certain companies have guidelines as to WHEN a policy must be purchased relative to the date of the first deposit.  If you have an expensive trip in mind, it doesn’t hurt to poke around the insurance website ahead of time to see what the purchasing time windows are.

 

Then one you’ve planned your trip, add up the NON-REFUNDABLE PORTIONS.  Some things like many hotel rooms you can cancel, right? So don’t include those.  Tally up how much you would be out of pocket if you have to cancel your trip. That’s how much to get the quote for.

 

Travel Insurance companies calculate rates based on the following:

1. Total cost of the non-refundable parts of the trip
2. Your country of home residence
3. Your destination or destinations.  If you are going several places, generally they want you to list the furthest, but double check so that you are following the rules.  It is worth the call to find out. On my upcoming trip, even though I will be spending the most time in the US, the furthest country is Jordan, so I was instructed to input Jordan.  I noticed my rate quote was the same, however, I didn’t want them to have any loophole to squiggle out of if I have a claim.
4. Your age.  The older you are the higher the cost.
5. Your pre-existing conditions, especially if you want to cover them.  If you have pre-existing conditions, it pays to shop around. Some will allow coverage if bought far enough in advance.
6. How comprehensive you want your policy to be.  Are you adding pre-existing conditions, a jewelry or electronics rider?  If you are going on an adventure, is your activity covered or do you need a special rider?

 

What about other insurances?

1. Credit Cards.  As mentioned, some offer a skeleton coverage of certain items listed above.  It doesn’t hurt to use a credit card that offers some travel insurance, but I don’t think it’s a good substitute for a comprehensive policy.
2. Travel Agent or Airline coverage:  When you check out, often you’ll be asked to get travel insurance to cover your purchase.  This will only cover the ticket you just purchased. If I am traveling domestically and think that it will be pricey if I have to go home unexpectedly because of Mom, I might buy it, but I usually still prefer the comprehensive policy.

Also keep in mind that some agents will sell you a cruise cancellation policy.  This technically is NOT an insurance policy. I still say, stick with a comprehensive policy.

 

How to Choose Which Travel Insurance and Get a Travel Insurance Quote

InsureMyTrip.com  I like this website because I can easily compare travel insurance policies and then pick the right policy for a particular trip and my risk tolerance for that trip.  They also have a third person advocate, so if you get denied a claim you feel should have been honored, they can step in and take a look and possibly help.  Plus, you don’t have to give them any identifying information unless you decide to buy a policy.  It takes just a couple of minutes to get a quote and policy comparison chart.

I find it easiest to buy my travel insurance online.  If you use my link, you will be helping to support the program at no additional cost to you – thanks!  Kit

 

CAUTIONS:

1. Cheap travel insurance may not be good travel insurance.  READ THE POLICY. You get a grace period for several days up to two weeks.  During that time, you can review the policy to see if it is the right fit for you.  If you see that you missed something, you can cancel and get your money back so you can find a better policy.
2. You are most likely going to have to upfront a lot of the expenses and then get reimbursed.  I would recommend bringing a credit card with a high limit in case of an emergency.  Otherwise come up with a back up plan (ie, a family friend or relative that may be able to front you some cash).

(C) Active Travel Adventures, LLC – All Rights Reserved

Complete Transcript

Note:  This is a machine trasncript bound to be full of boo boo’s. I provide it (unedited) so that those taht prefer to read rather than listen to the show have the means to do so.  I apologize for any errors:)

 

Kit: (00:00)
Okay.

Kit: (00:02)
Six months before my husband passed away.

Kit: (00:06)
Okay.

Kit: (00:06)
We were sitting in our office and our desperate right next to each other and bill was in remission and somebody had called me to ask me do something. This is in November, asked me if I wanted to do something the following June. And I said, no, I couldn’t really plan cause I didn’t know what bill’s health had been like because his cancer had come back twice already. And so I was just kind of keeping things in limbo. When I hung up, he said, listen kid, I’m feeling good right now. Why don’t you go take a trip? All I’m feeling good. And after a couple of years of medical and the stress of bills, cancer and just all the drama and the rentals weren’t doing that well. And so anyway, I said, that sounds really sweet. I said, I have always wanted to go to Africa. I knew that would be some place but with never want to go.

Kit: (00:47)
He said, well go if you can find somebody to go with you. So I emailed my girlfriend Mickey. I said, Hey Mickey, do you want to go to Africa and go to safari within 15 minutes? She emails back. Yeah, let’s go. So here we are November and we decided we’re going to go on a safari in January. So we ended up driving to Washington d C to get our visa because we didn’t trust mailing our passport there and getting it back in time in case there’s a snafu because at the time was so short, had another story for another day about the Snafu that happened on the way to the DC. But anyway, so we finally, we go off on our adventure. We head to Turkey for a few days to kind of recoup a little bit of the jet lag before we head into Tanzania. We land at like two o’clock in the morning as all the flights seem to, or picked up by a tour company who takes us to this nice little eco lodge that we’re supposed to sleep for a couple of hours, get up, have breakfast and go out in the safari.

Kit: (01:38)
Everything’s great. We’ve got this cute little room. It’s got the mosquito netting. It’s kind of cute. Nothing fancy, but it’s nice. We sleep maybe two or three hours, get cleaned up. We’re walking down this dirt path on the way to where the restaurant area was in the lodge and single file path and all of a sudden I hear Mickey Stumble and I turn around and she does a face plant and just smooshes her face in. So we are in this backwoods area and she’s just bleeding and her nose is smooshed and we can’t even use the water from the faucet cause it’s not sterile enough. So we had to use bottled water, try to clean it and the people at the lodge couldn’t have been any nicer, but we just, they just didn’t have the, the medical facilities there. Finally we get the doctor and the doctor actually recommended that she be flown to Kenya for treatment and she’s like, no, no, no.

Kit: (02:32)
I just want the stitches and the doctor does it. Everything’s fine, no infection. But he doesn’t let her go out into the Bush on the safari because of the risk of infection. She’d be too far away from medical care. So she ends up having to spend the entire five day safari time at that lodge, which in hindsight turned out to be a good thing for her because a, she ends up making friends and family members out of everybody she meets and she still keeps up with all those folks this many years later. But B, turns out also that she gets car sick and 70 something years old needs to use the restroom a lot. Not a good combination when you’re in a jeep and a safari bumbling around on, on rocky rutted roads. So anyway, end up being a blessing and thank God that she bought the travel insurance even though it took a while to get all the paperwork and all that. Eventually she was reimbursed for the expenses. So today we’re going to be talking about travel insurance and I’ve got an expert on travel insurance and travel safety with us from world nomads and we’re going to learn all the ins and outs of travel insurance, what to look out for, what you should be looking for. And without further ado, let’s get started.

Kit: (03:43)
Welcome to the adventure travel show podcast. I’m your host kid parks. Today we’re chatting with Phil Sir Vester from world nomads, the company I now buy my travel insurance from. And in full disclosure is also an affiliate of active travel adventures and the adventure travel show. So Phil is a travel safety expert for world nomads out of Australia and he’s here today to answer all of our questions about travel insurance. Bill, welcome to the program.

Phil: (04:08)
Thanks very much for having me.

Kit: (04:10)
I know people are gonna think travel insurance sounds kind of dry, so let’s get people off with a good start and let’s tell them some fun stories to show them. This is going to be a fun show. Tell me your favorite happy ending travel insurance story.

Phil: (04:23)
Oh, we have so many. Oh, okay. Here’s one. There was a Florida guy and he was doing base jumping in Switzerland, would you believe? And ended up hanging on a rock ledge quite a way off the ground and was quite badly injured. He got rescued and we got him back home to Florida and because of his head injury it had to be a low altitude flight. You can’t just put them on a regular commercial plane, but we got him home and he made a full recovery. So, you know, that was very expensive for us, but it was a great outcome for him. The downside of it is we don’t have a base jumping anymore.

Kit: (05:01)
And one reason I, I should note, the reason I switched to world nomads from my previous carrier is because I cover adventure travel and I didn’t realize a lot of the things I was doing wasn’t covered under regular policies.

Phil: (05:13)
Yeah, yeah. Look, we’ve got, ah, you know, I think it’s about of, uh, over a hundred, nearly 200 adventure activities that we will cover. And generally they’re ones that are not covered by other people as well. But you know, there are certain things that we don’t cover. You know, like if you wingsuit flying or as we’d like to call it plummeting, uh, you know, it’s not going to be covered.

Kit: (05:37)
Oh, I’ve seen video of that. Yeah. Now that’s pretty cool. It was crazy. We don’t cover anything that the bar is set, so I’ve got to be able to do it. And I’m 58 years old and I’m only in reasonable shape. I’m not like a super athlete, so for the most part we just do hiking, biking, paddling, nothing too crazy or too adrenaline kind of stuff. Yeah, so I bet you you also have some pretty interesting, weird stories

Phil: (05:58)
of just like freaky things. Can you tell us one of those and then we’ll get into some of the nitty gritty? Okay. We’ve had three broken penises. Oh, that’s interesting. Yeah. I’ll explain this. All right. Just stick with me. Okay. Where are your tone joins the bottom of your mouth? There’s that little bit of skin there that sort of, you know, little, yeah, that’s a frenulum. All right. Men have got to, yes, the other ones down there, if you tear that it plays a lot and there is an operation that you need to reattach it. It’s called [inaudible] to me. I see. And we’ve had that come up with three times. People that have been away on holiday and they’ve been having some, you know, some wee time with their partner and something’s happened and it’s got torn.

Kit: (06:46)
That’s a different kind of adventure than what we cover on this show. However.

Phil: (06:50)
Yeah. Okay. Uh, okay. Yeah, let’s hear it. Few years ago there was a, a customer traveling in India and noticed he had an insect bite and it was getting, you know, kind of itchy and whatever. And then he noticed that it was actually moving underneath there and something that laid its eggs under his skin. So he went to the doctor and the doctor said, go buy a piece of mate and strap it to your lake because the lava inside the maggots inside will be attracted to the role made on the outside, not the inside. And they did, they all lift his leg and went into the meat and he threw it away. We paid for the doctor’s appointment, but he had to buy the piece of meat himself.

Kit: (07:29)
Well that one seems like you came out pretty good on that one.

Phil: (07:32)
[inaudible]

Kit: (07:34)
so let’s, let’s, let’s talk a little bit about why should people buy travel insurance? Just to like a, a brief thing. Cause I’m gonna ask you some more detailed questions, but just kind of give us a synopsis of what should be going through our heads when we say, oh, we’ve got this great trip. Why should we cough up a little extra money?

Phil: (07:48)
Because there are always unexpected things that happen that mean that you’re not able to go on the trip or continue the trip or I have to end it early and these are things that people are just not planning for. I mean who would know a volcano would go off in Iceland and ground or flights in Europe who would know that you know you’re going to get hit by a BMO when you’re crossing the road in Indonesia, who would know if a close family member is going to be suddenly very ill, which means you have to stay home. These things you can’t plan for it. You don’t know they are unforeseen. And this is what travel insurance is there for, to make sure that you don’t end up out of pocket and don’t forget. And travel insurance, it’s insurance, it’s not compensation. So it’s going to make sure that you end up financially where you were if that thing had not happened, but it’s not going to compensate you for a bad experience.

Kit: (08:42)
Right, right. And actually the reason that you just brought up about the a loved one or something, that’s the main reason that I started buying travel insurance is I have elderly parents now, it’s just an elderly mother. But at 93 and a half years old I that I might get the call one day. I travel so much that I need to go home instantly and they stick it to you at the airfares. And some of them, the tours I do are extraordinarily expensive and I just don’t want to be out that much cash.

Phil: (09:07)
Yep. Yep. Well every sensible willed out.

Kit: (09:10)
So let’s, let’s talk about, that’s one of the key things that most policies covered and that’s trip cancellation. So I’m going to ask you about a couple of different things that I know of about trip cancellation. You can tell me a little bit about what are the kinds of things we need to be looking at. One of which is like natural disasters. You talked about the Iceland and weather things like who decides how bad is a disaster and how does all that work?

Phil: (09:32)
Well it varies a little bit. I mean it’s pretty obvious with the volcano cause when it goes bang, that’s it. You know an earthquake, same thing but a a natural disaster. If you, if you check out like the State Department’s travel section, they will put up warnings about when things, you know, when they advise you not to travel to a destination. That’s a big key factor. The British Foreign Office also do those warnings as does the Australian Foreign Office defect. So we kind of take that is you know the Bible basic. If they say to their citizens, don’t go here, then you are not, you can’t travel against the adviser. View of the old covenant h case is judged on its merits as well. We have underwriting teams everywhere and they will look at events and they’ll go, well this has happened. How has that kind of impact our travelers? And so they will, you know, we’re, we’re constantly monitoring things that happen around the world.

Phil: (10:27)
But basically if it works this way, if the, if there’s been, you know, some sort of incident in the place that you’re going, if the planes are still flying there, if the hotel still open and you know, the roads are still open, you’re going. But if any of those things are not happening, you know, like you can’t get to it. The roads blocked. The hotel has been forced to close. The tour has had to be canceled because of this incident or you know, there’s no, no flights going in and out of the destination, then that’s the taste.

Kit: (11:00)
All right, let’s, let’s take that a step further with terrorism, which is unfortunately something we have to deal with these days at the State Department, let’s say, uh, I’m actually this fall going to several places that are a level two, which it’s advise a little bit more caution than the level one. If the State Department moves at two a level three does that kick in the insurance because now it’s more advisedly not to go what is level three? So I think it’s four levels. So level three is saying, Eh, not a good idea. Like Nicaragua right now is a level three and that they’re almost in civil war.

Phil: (11:33)
Yeah, no you’re good for level three but you know, don’t go near any of the protests in the streets of Managua. But you know, if there’s no advice, no level four advice, then you, yeah, you can use the travel insurance has not yet been cut off.

Kit: (11:48)
And then now on the the death or a serious illness of a loved one, what are the parameters? Who defines loved one?

Phil: (11:55)
Look, it is actually defined in the policy wording in the PDS. So yet somebody asked us, we did get a question, somebody said my dog died. Does that count as a close family member? We’re really sorry and we understand how you feel about your dog. But no. Yeah, it’s generally siblings, parents in laws, but it probably wouldn’t extend to cousins. But again, every case is judged on its merits. I mean, if you’re sharing your life and you’re living in the same house as a cousin and it’s a cousin that dies, then we’ll, we’ll say to that,

Kit: (12:31)
okay, that actually sounds pretty fair at fair than I would’ve thought. Um, how about, and then sometimes there’s coverage for layoffs if you get laid off and now all of a sudden cash could be a problem. Is that typical or is that something you need to look for?

Phil: (12:43)
Okay. It does happen. The amend, the one of the other providers as we’ve got [inaudible] policies for US citizens is if you get called up for military service or you get called up for jury duty or if the business that you work for goes into liquidation, you know, it goes bankrupt and you’re required to be there to help clean up and things like that. So there’s a lot of reasons why you can cancel around those sorts of areas.

Kit: (13:08)
Yeah. It sounds like you’re actually using some judgment calls, which is nice cause it sounds like it’s some of the things that are above and beyond what, what you read in the actual policy. Cause I’ve looked at the website kind of extensively. So you’ve talked about the weather and then also if you miss a flight or a connection through no fault of your own. How’s all that work?

Phil: (13:27)
Okay. This is complicated. If you, which lots of us do because you know we’d like to book our own trips and our own flights. If you book a flight from destination to destination B, stop over it with the intention of going to destination C and you book airline number one for a and B, but you book airline number two for B and c and you miss the connection. That’s your fault. That’s your problem. You didn’t allow enough time to be able to make the connection. Whereas if you had booked from a to B to c with airline one the whole way through, it’s their responsibility to get you to see. So if you’re held up or delayed or your missy connection in destination B, they will sort it out for you and they will put you on the next flight. But in the first scenario where you’ve got two different airlines as far as airline two’s concerned, when you just don’t show up, they don’t know where you’ve come from, they don’t know you’ve got a connecting flight, you just haven’t showed up. And airline one has, when they eventually get you to destination B, they fulfilled their commitment to you. So it’s your fault for not allowing enough time to make the connection in between. So don’t leave it a couple of hours if it’s really important that do it. Stop over, have a day in the, in destination B. Yeah,

Kit: (14:43)
that, that’s actually happened to me and d was not covered. So I get that one. Now

Phil: (14:48)
we will book our own cheap flights and we like to make it up ourselves. Right. I get that. But just have to be aware that you leave enough time. Right. Right. Now what about the lost or delayed luggage? How’s all that work? You obviously have got to report it as soon as you can at the airport. Always keep those baggage tickets. They stick on the back of your boarding pass varies from, cause I’ll take it, you’ve got not just Americans listening and maybe it’s some British people this, no, no actually we are. We’re international and we have over a hundred countries. We’ve got like 13 different policies that cover people from around the world and the wording unfortunately slightly different in the mall. So generally though, if your luggage is delayed for more than 12 hours, in some cases it’s only six hours, but you know it’s like say 12 hours, check the policy wording, you can then go and spend and get some essentials to make it up.

Phil: (15:41)
That might mean that you need to go and get some new underwear. You need some toothpaste, you need, you know, some pajamas a you, it may be in a cold climate and you need a new jacket or something like that. You’re entitled to go and get those up to a certain amount, which I think is around about $250 a day. And you can claim that back now if it’s gone for more than 24 hours, I think there’s 24 24 hours. If it’s that and then it’s considered completely lost, then it’s basically as if it’s been stolen and we’ll pay out the maximum benefit that we’ve got for your luggage. Now let’s switch gears to something that’s, that can be really, really expensive and that’s medical. So let’s, let’s talk a little bit about if somebody’s got a preexisting condition. For example, a lot of our listeners are over, let’s say over a certain age, over 60 a lot of people that we interview here, and they may have diabetes or they may have some heart conditions.

Phil: (16:34)
How does all that work? Again, with like I said, 13 different policies and different wordings and what have you said, check the policy in the world nomads policy for your country of residence. But there are some of those conditions which we do cover. But if it’s not on the list of things we do cover, then we don’t. And if you are traveling and something happens that is related to that condition, it won’t be covered. So we are not necessarily the right policy for you cause not all policies are everything to everyone. So the reason you should read the policy wording is to make sure that it’s right for your circumstances. So you, if you have a preexisting medical condition, you may need to go and choose a different provider who does on their own providers who have screening processes and they will say, yeah we’ll cover you for that for an extra premium or no we’re not going to cover you for that but we’ll cover you for this whatever. We’re not one of those because that just adds a layer of complication and slows things down. We are a different type of travel insurance and we might not be right for you. Okay. Now would that be something, do you know of going to like ensure my trip back calm would be a good resource to do that? Sure, Yep. I know of the brand in Australia that has a screening process, but I’m not aware of, I don’t know.

Kit: (17:49)
I used them before I switched to you, but I don’t remember them ever asking me about any preexisting conditions. So I guess the bottom line is to read your policy in check while you still have the grace period. That’s going to be the only time you can get your money back. If it turns out you inadvertently bought a policy that’s not suitable for you. Uh, how about if you have an accident or sudden illness or you eat something? Oh boy, you got sick. What do you do then and what kinds of things are covered there?

Phil: (18:15)
You have medical bills, so if you’re overseas and new VOR, ill look, if it’s a minor complaint, find an near clinic and get the medicines that you need and what have you and keep the bill that you get from the clinic and then submit that and you’ll be reimbursed if it’s a major incident and you’re admitted to a hospital. Sadly, when you’re admitted to the emergency department, as soon as they’ve stabilized you to make sure you’re not going to die and they’ve stemmed the bleeding, one of the next people you will see will be somebody from the front office with a clipboard and they’re going to be asking you how you’re going to pay for this treatment. I’m serious. The person with the clipboard turns up and that’s when you go, here’s my world nomads policy number, give them a call and they will call our emergency assistance teams and we will swing into action there. Now our in house medical teams will liaise with the people treating you to make sure you’re getting the best possible treatment. We will assess the hospital that you’re in and decide if there’s actually a better one nearby and if it’s possible medically advised to move you to get the better quality care and we will pay the bills up front so you can concentrate on getting well rather than having to find your credit card in your wallet.

Kit: (19:33)
Right now when my girlfriend Mickey, we were in Tanzania and she had a really bad fall and they wanted to fly her to Kenya. She chose not to. Would that have been something when the locals are even saying you shouldn’t get that treated here, you better go into the next country, you get better treatment. Is she a doctor? She’s not. The doctors were saying exactly she adult number cause she’s stubborn. The start ended well but if everybody’s saying Eh, you know cause a lot of places we go to our go to may be a little dicey when it comes to the medical scene there. So

Phil: (20:07)
yeah call, call our emergency assistance team and no it shouldn’t be called in emergency. It’s like customer assistance team and traveler assistance team. Really like give them a call and say look this has happened. I’ve had a fall. The locals here and saying don’t get this treated here. Go to Kenya. What do you advise we will, you know, you’ll probably end up speaking to our in house nurse or our in house doctor who will make the best assessment they can over the phone. And then if it’s decided that, yeah, okay, we can’t tell from here, whatever, and you do need better treatments so it will get arranged and we’ll get you somewhere where you’re going to get quality care. And I got to say, if the locals are saying don’t do it, I would whoa,

Kit: (20:49)
you hear that Mickey? Uh, it just, it’s, it’s so hard cause you know, you, you’re so excited to go on your trip and we are walking to breakfast the morning of our safari and she just does this face plant and just smushed her face in and she’s just, and she’s also, you know, be fuddled and you know, just, it just wasn’t what you’re expecting that day and you know, surprises happen. And she was just being shook up and stubborn. She’s like, no, I’ll just go ahead and stitch me up here. So whatever. Like I said, it ended up working out fine, but it was a little traumatic morning. She’s pretty tough then, right? Yeah, she’s very tough. She’s very tough lady, so she’s pretty cool. Yeah. All right. So now let’s say what, is there any kind of coverage amounts we should ask for or is this something that you have a choice on or how does all that work and any recommendations there? Okay.

Phil: (21:41)
In Australia, the United Kingdom, we’re kind of used to travel insurance being the way it is through world nomad. But Americans are kind of used to a different type of insurance won’t see you. This is the value, this is the cost of my trip, this is a value of my trip. And then you get charged and certain percentage of that of the cost as your premium at doesn’t work that way. With world nomads, what determines the cost of your premium here is the maximum benefits payable. So you know there was a limit of say $1,500 on lost luggage. So that’s the maximum benefit that you can claim and given. And then you go across all the other benefits against which you can claim that determines what the premium will be. So if you are going on a $500,000 trip to tens and year, your insurance premium determined by the, the better maximum benefit of Alpha will be saved. I don’t know what it is. I’m making this up. Maybe you know a $150 if you’re going on a $50,000 trip to Tanzania, it will still be $150 because of the maximum defined benefit that’s payable. So you won’t pay any more if you’re going on a luxury trip as if you going backpacking somewhere. It’s the same because it’s defined by the maximum benefit possible.

Kit: (22:59)
Okay, so so it’s so it looks like we need to look at the policy to see what the coverage limits are and if we see that there’s a huge gap between what the coverage limits are versus our trip. And most of our trips aren’t anywhere near those kinds of things. I’ve looked at your policies, everything that I’ve covered so far for the most part outside of maybe Kelly would fall within those ranges. But if you’re doing some extraordinary luxury trip, you need to check that closely before you buy. Did I get that right?

Phil: (23:26)
January. The thing that happens most often is people have got really super duper expensive camera equipment and the maximum benefit for the leading camera is not going to replace it. You know, you might have a $5,000 camera and it’s not going to be covered by our benefit limit, but in that case, people who’ve got big cameras that generally are a part of some sort of professional association or Semiprofessional Association and you know, or photography club or something like that. And those clubs generally will have insurance policies for their members to cover their equipment. So you make sure that your camera equipment is covered in some other way. The world nomads policy has got that equipment benefit level and if that’s not sufficient, then you know, you should look at getting additional insurance to cover a specific item

Kit: (24:14)
and US citizens at Leisha check their homeowners policy because sometimes in particularly we have a rider, you may have coverage there.

Phil: (24:20)
Oh totally. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. A lot of home policies will cover it. Things like laptops and cameras when you take them out of that out of the house. Yeah. And they often have higher benefit limits than we do at world nomads. So you know, so you walk into breakfast in Tanzania and you fall and split your face open, but also smash your camera. We will do the medical stuff, but don’t claim the camera from a, the camera damage without his claim. The camera damage with your other insurance

Kit: (24:47)
and when you buy something expensive, make a copy of the receipt because a lot of times your credit card company will offer some insurance because they figured we’re going to forget all about it. So that’s another little hidden insurance benefit that you may have and not even realize you have now also gets a little bit confusing with the insurance with the Schengen travel insurance in Europe. Can you explain a little bit about that? That whole thing was kind of new to me anyway.

Phil: (25:10)
You know, the USTA that you need to get into America, which is you have to apply for clearance for these at free entry. It’s kind of like a visa to say you don’t need a visa. Right. That’s what’s going to happen in Europe as well. You’re gonna need to apply so that they can screen you beforehand to say that you’re eligible for visa free entry. That’s all that is.

Kit: (25:32)
I thought there’s a requirement for travel insurance with that now too. Uh,

Phil: (25:36)
probably a requirement for medical insurance. So your travel insurance will cover that.

Kit: (25:40)
Oh, okay. That’s probably what they’re going after. Okay. All right. Yeah. So yeah, cause I understood that you had to show some kind of proof of insurance.

Phil: (25:47)
You’ve already got travel insurance, which includes medical, you see if you’ve only taken out trip insurance, so you have any cupboard, you know the flight that doesn’t include medical, which is why travel insurance is as an all encompassing trip insurance, medical insurance, evacuation insurance as a combined product. That’s why that’s better to have because as you say, and you know you’re going to have travel insurance anyway.

Kit: (26:12)
Right, right. And then also I read too that sometimes some travel agencies and cruise lines and all that, they’ll push travel protection, which is quite different from travel insurance. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Phil: (26:25)
Yeah, that, that’s like the trip detection. So what they are doing there is they are selling a product and you can buy it at a kiosk at airports in the United States you are offering insurance against the cost of that travel ticket so it doesn’t cover anything else. It doesn’t cover your medical costs. It probably doesn’t cover loss of your baggage and what have you. But if the flight is delayed or the flight is canceled, then you can make a claim for insurance compensation thing that to cover your costs that you’ve lost. So it only covers one thing and they are making around about, I would suggest, I don’t know for sure, but I reckon they’re making about 50% commission on that insurance that they sell you.

Kit: (27:07)
Yeah, that’s about what I read too. So, yeah, so it’s not necessarily a good value. And, and people are getting confused between protection and insurance or what they have in their mind, what they’re buying.

Phil: (27:18)
Correct. And they’re using the word protection for that reason.

Kit: (27:22)
Is there any tips you can give us about how to not only just evaluate insurance policy, but also the company behind it? Because there’s, you know, everybody’s heard of the nightmares, oh, I bought insurance and they didn’t pay anything and Blah, blah, blah. How we evaluate looking at a company

Phil: (27:40)
such a major, it’s really great for that. Go onto the company’s website, find their Facebook site, find that, see what people are saying, go on other travel forums, see what people are saying it as well. Because you know, read it is a great place to find information like that as well. It is such a heavily regulated industry worldwide that there are no dodgy operators. You’re not going to buy insurance and it’s not properly bad. It just doesn’t happen. So you’re pretty safe with going who maybe you choose with the product that they are offering, which is right for your circumstances. It’s very, very, you’re not, you’re just not going to fond an insurance company that goes bankrupt. But their processes for handling claims about whether they are good at that or not, we’ll be very, very clear on social media. But don’t forget as well, lots of people get very upset on social media of like, oh, I paid all this money and they won’t pay my claim.

Phil: (28:34)
There’s not an entitlement to be paid for something. You actually have to play by the rules. And in lots of cases, people you know, have done things which are not covered. We had a case recently where a customer was upset, they got altitude sickness was, they were in Nepal and they were at 4,900 meters, but they had purchased a policy that only covers up to 4,600 meters and now it’s only 300 meters and can, yeah, but you know, that’s what the policy wording said. You know, that’s the one you chose, but then you’ve done something different. You’ve just, so maybe you originally plan not to go above that altitude, but then suddenly you found a reason to, he could’ve called us up an upground new policy to get covered, but you didn’t. So now you’re saying, oh, it’s not fair that you’ve rejected my claim. We ended up paying by the way, because you know, yeah, it is only 300 meters or so, but a lot of the complaints that you get, Oh God, they won’t pay my claim. It’s, yeah, it’s because you don’t qualify to get it paid.

Kit: (29:37)
Okay, and then that brings up the other thing too is a lot of times are mad because they might’ve done something negligent or they might have been under the influence or can you talk a little bit about that and maybe give some stories about that?

Phil: (29:49)
Yeah, sure. Here’s an example for you. For Australian customers who go to Bali a lot, it’s very great destination. We go there a lot. It’s very close by. It’s like our Cancun place. 60% of the claims that are made related to motorcycle injuries out of Bali, we reject because they are not licensed to ride. They’re not wearing a helmet or that under the influence or what we call the unhappy Trifecta. All three drunk, no license, no helmet. And they crash and fall off like a client, sorry, not happening. So we reject 60% of those, uh, those, those requests.

Kit: (30:28)
I like beer. So if I have one beer and something happens to me, I’m not covered. Or do you have to have a certain limit or, or, or is there a, a formula that you use?

Phil: (30:38)
Yeah, every case is judged on its merit. Somebody will assess your claim and they will make investigations and they will get the toxicology report from the hospital where you’re admitted and we’ll find out how much alcohol was in your system. And then they will make a person, a person will make a decision on whether your state of intoxication may have contributed to what happened to you. So there’s no hard and fast rule because common sense prevails. And I know people will find this hard to believe. But it is true if we get somebody and you know, these are people that we care about, these are our customers, these are our, you know, these are nomads. We want them to travel. We will look and go, well under this part of the policy, we wouldn’t pay that claim. But, uh, there’s a contradictory part of the policy over here that says we are able to, to pay it.

Phil: (31:29)
You know what, let’s use that one and pay the claim. And as long as you can justify that, I mean then we can, we can look after you and we’re gonna we don’t, we don’t want to strand people in hospitals with huge bills. If there’s some way that we can find that is going to pay it, then we will do that. So some a person is making that assessment on your claim. So, you know, we try and put as much humanity into that as we possibly can. But if you’re over 0.05 or 0.08 or whatever the legal blood alcohol limit it is in the place where you have the accident, then it’s very likely that it’s going to be, you know, a contributing factor. But look, if you’ve had one drink and your sensibly walking back to your accommodation rather than riding a motor scooter and a vehicle Koreans off the road and hits you, you could be as drunk as a skunk, but as long as you know, because that was somebody else’s fault, you did not contribute to what happened to you.

Phil: (32:24)
So it’s interesting as well by the way, because we were looking at this now that they’ve legalized cannabis in Canada and it’s like how do we treat that? And there is such a, you know, people do go to destinations because cannabis legal or at least dispensed in places in the United States and the same thing applies. But the, in Canada, the government has said if you are intoxicated, if you are under the influence and you have a traffic accident, then you will be judged. So the Canadian government advisers don’t smoke and drive at all. And we would be kind of following that advice as well. So that’s the rural set up there. But I mean it’s really easy to determine what your blood alcohol level is, but not quite sure how it is to determine how intoxicated you are by cannabis. So go easy.

Kit: (33:13)
And then also if somebody is, we do a lot of hiking on this program. If so many clients at the top of the mountain, they’re just too tired to come down. You don’t send a helicopter for them, do you? Nope. Nope. That’s their problem. Right? Have people tried?

Phil: (33:28)
Sure. We’ve got a massive problem with that in Nepal at the moment because there are lots of helicopters operating there and a lot of very tired and grumpy and saw people at the tops of Trex who can’t face another four days trekking back. And it is a problem. And, and if they are claiming to have symptoms of altitude, mountain sickness, altitude sickness, then first priority is to look after their welfare. So, you know, they will get medically evacuated and yeah, and it’s, it’s a problem if you are at the top of mountain and you haven’t planned well on up, what will happen is night will fall, a blizzard will come, the local Alpine rescue team will be throwing in an action and they will come and get you off the mountain and put you in a hospital. Then that’s where your travel insurance takes over and we start paying your medical bills and we are canceled and miss trips and all that sort of stuff. So No, there is no helicopter with the world nomads, you know, our little symbol Sanchez, the little sort of in command, there’s no helicopter with cheers plays and on it that will come and get you. Sorry,

Kit: (34:42)
I definitely get that. You’ve got so many people that are hidden to Nepal, they’re not doing their training, they have no altitude prep at all. And then they just wanna be able to show an Instagram that they did this or they did that. So now I totally get that you shouldn’t have to pay for somebody arriving woefully unprepared.

Phil: (34:57)
Why would you put yourself in that position in the first place? I mean, it’s like airbags in cars, right? So people go, I’ve got their bags so they stopped wearing their seatbelt. You know? Why would you put yourself in the position where you haven’t planned appropriately, where you may find yourself too tired to get back down where you’ve gone? Why would you do that to yourself?

Kit: (35:14)
Well, they may not have the experience to know. Yeah, maybe. I think with Instagram and, Oh, I’ve got another question coming up about that. You know, they, they see people doing all these things and they want to do it and they may, you know, I heard of somebody thought she was going to the Appalachian trail, pushing a shopping cart, you know, I was like, has she done any homework whatsoever before she started out?

Phil: (35:35)
Well, here is another about travel insurance. All right. We don’t cover the stupidity. Seriously. You’re doing a really dumb thing. We don’t cover that.

Kit: (35:43)
Got It. Got It. All right. What about people that are not traveling so specific with specific dates? And this is a very personal question because I got a really complicated project this fall that I’m going to multiple destinations over the course of several months with time in between that I haven’t really, I haven’t booked the flight yet. I book the tours, booked the conferences, so combined it’s too much. So do I do an individual policy or do I do chunks of policies or how, how do I do something like that? And what do you do with people that are just traveling nomadically and don’t really know where they’re going to be? Is there annual policy or chunk policies or what do we do?

Phil: (36:22)
Well, you can get a policy that covers you for the world worldwide. So let me get this straight. So you’re going away and then you’re coming back at an indeterminate time. At the end of all of this, you’re not coming back home in between. Correct. By a policy right now because you’ve already outlaid money on tools and what have you. Get a policy now that covers the dates that you’re going to go. And if you don’t think you’re ever going to come back, then get worldwide for up to six months. Now. Federal regulations when you can’t do more than six months at a time, but you can renew your will nomez policy while you’re on the road. So you just get online and extend it. And if you’ve got worldwide then you can go anywhere that you like. But if you know you’re going to a specific region, you can get a policy for Asia, you can get a policy for South America out of world nomads. So it doesn’t really matter where you go within that region.

Kit: (37:12)
How about some credit cards bragged that they offer travel insurance? Can you talk about that?

Phil: (37:17)
Yeah, sure. And they do. And the policies are generally underwritten by the same people that are underwriting, you know, specific providers. But you again have to read the policy wording to see what they cover. They often have a higher deductible than a it standalone travel insurance provider. And there may be criteria around how it’s activated. Do you have to tell them beforehand? Do you have to have paid all of your trip portion of your trip or pay for on the credit card. So make sure you know how it’s activated. Then check who the emergency assistance company is that they are using. Cause it’s not, you know, somebody in your bank who’s going to help you and you’re in trouble. They’ve, they’ve got service provider, find out who they are and you know you can make an assessment of those as well. And the other thing is what is the emergency assistance number that comes with your credit card insurance?

Phil: (38:12)
You have to dig around pretty hard to find that sort of information. And the other thing is you don’t know exactly how much you pay for that. They go, it’s complimentary, it’s included in your credit card. But they don’t tell you how much that travel insurance policy is actually costing you. You’ve got a willed nomads, you know you’re paying, you know, $109 for that policy, but you get this complimentary, not free, but complimentary travel insurance and they’re stinging you for it. It’s all the charges that you’re paying for that. So it’s actually not very good value either. And just on a personal level, if you’re, you know, if you’ve just face planted in Tanzania, are you really going to call your bank to look after you? Why wouldn’t you know like let’s get a, you know, let’s get a specialized travel insurance provider to run it for you. I don’t know, like it’s there and if it suits you again, you know, like I said, we’ll know him as policies. I’m not going to be perfect for everybody. Maybe the one that comes with your credit card is perfect for you, then go for it.

Kit: (39:16)
What about to a, sometimes our car insurance here in the states covers, at least in the United States, I’ve never, I can’t remember overseas if I rent a car, I’m covered on that. Does that translate in travel insurance when you’re traveling outside of the area or can you talk about that a lot?

Phil: (39:35)
Well, you’ll so unsure about it. I’m pretty sure everybody else’s does. My American car insurance cover me for that excess damage waiver. I think they call it,

Kit: (39:45)
does my car coverage? If it says it does, does that cover a scooter in Vietnam for example? I have no clue. Phil and I went back and forth on this auto insurance and what’s covered and what’s not covered, and I edit out all that junk because the bottom line is, is you need to check with your auto policy here at home first and see what is covered there. And if it doesn’t cover you where you’re going, you’re going to need to buy whatever the insurance is at the place that you’re going with whatever the vehicle is, whether it’s a scooter or a car, whatever. And the key thing is, is you’ve got to make sure that you have a valid driver’s license for the location that you’re going to be in. And that might require having an international driver’s license. You have to wear the hell about or follow whatever the rules of the roads are in that country.

Kit: (40:30)
And you can’t be breaking any rules, which means you can’t be under the influence and you gotta be following the law. So your travel insurance basically will cover the medical problems if you have an accident and assuming that you are following the rules but it will not cover the auto vehicle damages. That’s what your auto policy needs to cover. And if you don’t have an auto policy, you need to buy one from the company you’re renting from. So that’s the bottom line. And some policies may cover your deductible on auto accident but not the actual accident. So I can not emphasize more clearly you need to read the policy, you get a grace period after you buy the policy, you download the policy, you actually read it and see is this a suitable policy for you and are you willing to take the risks that are not covered. Your policy will spell out in black and white what is and what is not covered. And you cannot expect them to make exceptions. That’s just the way it is. Okay, so let’s switch gears and let’s talk about stolen baggage.

Phil: (41:37)
The biggest problem we have, and it’s a little unfair, is what’s what’s considered to be unaccompanied baggage. If you are not paying proper attention to your belongings and they get stolen, the loss may not be covered. And sometimes that gets down to, oh I just put it on the table now turned around for one second. And it’s like, yeah, well that was unattended baggage as opposed to, you know, I, I left it over there and walked away to another shop and came back, which is quite obvious. So sometimes it can sound really unfair about the way it is treated. So please look after your belongings. Don’t put your cell phone down on a table and turn around just for a second. Cause in some places that we traveled to, they are or can be solid on the black market for like, you know, a month with wages for somebody local. So look after your belongings, don’t leave them unattended. And don’t be surprised if you do and your claim is questioned.

Kit: (42:40)
Let’s, so let’s talk about theft. You’re walking through the markets and somebody snatches your purse.

Phil: (42:46)
So you had it on under your arm. They still grabbed or they cut, they cut the strap and ran off with that. Yep. Is that covered? Yeah, it happens all the time. Hatton. Just recently, actually a friend of mine works for a big international airline and they have had two or three of the cabin stuff, have had the handbags snatched by motorcycle thieves. You know, they ride by and just pull them off. There’s an Australia woman who died because of that, about three or four years ago. So yeah, look, if you’re injured in that, yes. If the bag has got valuables in it and it will often have things like your passport in it, yeah. Then the cost of replacing those items will be covered. That is absolutely. They left lots of baggage. Yes. It’s covered. Plus you may have been injured as well, so we’d cover your medical bills

Kit: (43:34)
and so what kind of proof do we have to present to you? It’s something like that. I mean, I don’t take a picture of what’s in my purse. How do we have to show you that we’ve actually had a loss?

Phil: (43:42)
Well, it’s pretty obvious with a passport. I don’t have it. I can’t leave the country. I need to go and get a new one. If it’s something like a camera or something like that, and you should do this with all of your positions that you take away. Nobody keeps the receipts when they bought stuff. You know, maybe you’ve had your camera for five years and you don’t know where that receipts gone and what have you. But to prevent fraud, we’re going to need some sort of proof that you owned it in the first place and some sort of proof that I actually was stolen from you. So the proof that you had it in the first place, if you’ve got the receipt, great, nobody does. But if you tape, you’re the one person that does, that’s awesome. Your home and hose, write down the serial number.

Phil: (44:21)
Do you still have the instruction booklet, the manual that came with it or something? The pros that you had it and we will even consider, and this is a really good tip, all right, the day before you go away and you’ve packed your, your luggage, your patch, your bag, unpack it, lay it out on the floor, put today’s newspaper next to it and take a photograph store that in the cloud somewhere. It’s, it’s not rock solid proof, but it goes a long way for, you know that person, that human person who’s assessing your client will go, yeah, you’re pretty careful sort of person. You would, you were trying to do the right thing there. You know, I’m right down the serial numbers of the devices that you’re taking away before you go cash. If you’ve lost cash in there. We only cover a, like a small amount of stolen cash.

Phil: (45:10)
It’s really hard to say whether you know, you can’t trace cash and proving that it actually happened. The auto match. I am here. We needed to get a police report within 24 hours and now so if you are in, you know up the Amazon somewhere and there were no police around to make a report to as soon as you get back to somewhere where they’re up plates within 24 hours ago and make a report to police. Sometimes that’s really difficult. They’re just not interested in this extra paperwork for them. They insist you need some kind of police report and sometimes those reports are, they haven’t done any investigation. They just say, yes, this person came to our station and reported that they had lost some goods. But that’s what you need if you lose it whilst you’re on some sort of transport and a plane or a truck or you know of bustle, something, contact the carrier like in know lost property department and then get something in writing from them that says that you approach to them and say, this is missing.

Phil: (46:08)
Do you have it? Can you help me? So again, as much paperwork that you can that it was actually did go missing. How many think about it? It’s like if we didn’t do all that, you could go away and you trip and go, oh my nick on camera. Oh yeah, it’s got stolen. Can I have a new one please for 1500 bucks? And it’s like, yeah, sure. There you go. And then everybody’s insurance premiums would go up. It makes sense. That makes sense. I mean it’s gotta be fair for both sides. Yeah. It’s gotta be fit. Yeah. And it’s gotta be fair for everybody. If we didn’t ask for those things that proved existed and prove that it was stolen, then everybody’s premiums would go sky high because there would just be constantly being scammed. Gotcha. Gotcha. How about finishing up with a couple more fun stories for us?

Phil: (46:52)
Here’s something fun about will numbers that differentiates us from other travel insurance providers. We provide scholarships for aspiring writers, photographers and film makers. And you will get a money, can’t buy trip with a mentor to help you hone your skills. We’ve been running these for a dozen years now. We, you know, run three a year and we have, we counted up the number of entries that we’ve had in all that time and it’s close to 80,000 people have interacted with us by sharing their stories, by sharing their photographs or sharing the films that they’ve made was there traveling and some of stuff that we get from people is just outstanding. It’s just amazing. It’s such an inspiration to see how other people travel and the things that they’ve seen and the people that they’ve met and I don’t know another travel insurance company that does it. I’m not sure if you’re aware of the golden circle and Simon Sinek and talking about the power of y, but it’s quite famous in marketing circles, but he says, and he’s absolutely right about this, people don’t buy what you do. They buy why you do it and why we do what we do at will nomads is because we love travel as much as you do. We’re all travelers ourselves and we want other people to be able to enjoy travel as much as we have because travel is a force for change. It’s a positive force for change in the world, and so that’s why we do what we do and we just happen to sell travel insurance to help us do it as well.

Kit: (48:21)
Perfect. Perfect. Well, Phil, if people want to follow you or we’ll do match kit and tell us a little bit how people can reach out to you guys.

Phil: (48:27)
Hey, you know what? We’ve got a podcast too. I know. Tell us about it. The world nomads podcast. If you haven’t had enough of my voice today on this program, you can go and get more of me with my cohost Kim Napier over on the world nomads podcast and we’ll nomads.com you will find our page there and a right across the top is our navigation bar. You can buy insurance that you can go and read some amazing travel stories. You can go and get some tips for traveling to destinations. You can get safety tips, you can join an inter our scholarships. You can join a community of people who all believe in independent adventure minded travel world, nomads.com

Kit: (49:10)
however, I would like to add, since you are an affiliate partner with this company, if you would please use my link to go there. You will be helping to support the show.

Phil: (49:18)
I would appreciate that guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean that’s an amazing thing. We encourage people to do that because that’s another way that we help the travel community by helping people like self care. You know, like if we can help you make a travel lifestyle, you’re going to travel more and you’re going to inspire others. So yeah, absolutely. Go through kids site before you visited us and we’re very happy for them.

Kit: (49:42)
Sounds great. Well Phil, thanks so much for coming on the program. I appreciate it.

Phil: (49:45)
Thank you very much. I’m going to go get my daughter off to school now.

Kit: (49:49)
I don’t know about you, but I sure learned a lot from Phil today in travel insurance is something I always buy, but I’d never really paid too much attention to it. I know I never read the policy, so I learned an awful lot today about what is covered and the kinds of things that aren’t and I learned a lot of things that I thought would be covered would not be. So I’ll be a little bit smarter when I do things. I love the tip of taking the photographs ahead of time and putting a serial number. In fact, I think I’m going take his idea, write down the serial number and put a little piece of paper next to the thing on the photographs. I have it all with me up in the cloud. Should anything unforeseen happen. Um, I know I always recommend people just to take a photo of their passport to have that up in

Kit: (50:28)
the cloud. I email that to myself so I can always access that. And I also keep a copy in my other bags so that way I have that assessable as well. Anyway, I hope you’ve got a lot of information from Phil today. I think it gives us a lot to chew on and if we take away nothing else a read your policy, you get a grace period when you buy it online. So take that time to actually look through it to understand what you’re buying, to make sure you bought the policy that’s appropriate for your trip. There’s nothing worse, Bob. There’s lots of things worse but that it’s heartbreaking if you think you’ve done it right and you go and you buy the policy and then something bad happens or unforeseen happens that messes up your trip or your health and then you find that you’re not covered.

Kit: (51:08)
I mean what a downer. You don’t want that to happen so take the time to read the policy. If you are ready to buy travel insurance, I would sure appreciate you using my links on my website. It does help support the program at no additional cost to you. I do earn a small commission and that helps keep the lights on and keep this podcast going. It’s a great no cost way to support active travel adventures podcast and this the adventure travel show podcast. I sure appreciate it and I always love your feedback. You can reach me@qitatactivetraveladventures.com I love getting your emails. So write me and tell me what you’re up to next week on the act of travel adventures podcast, we’re going to the wind river range. I first heard about the wind river range listening to another podcast that’s sponsored by Patagonia, the clothing company, and the founder you’ve on Chouinard first fell in love with the mountains by hiking and climbing in the wind river range. So next week we’ll find out what is so special about that mountain range and I can’t wait to share that with you. And I’ll be back in two weeks with this podcast, the adventure travel show podcast, and we’re gonna learn a little bit about camping. So I can’t wait to share this stuff with you. I look forward to being with you soon. Until then, thanks for listening. This is kit parks adventure on.