Wilderness Skills : How to Safely Cross a River
Sometimes when you are hiking, you come to a river you need to cross that doesn’t have a bridge or stepping stones to get across safely. What do you do? How do you know if it is safe to cross or if you should check further up or downstream for a safer place to cross? Once you decide where to cross, how do you do so in the safest manner possible? Check out these tips to safely cross a river when hiking.
(C) Active Travel Adventures, LLC – All Rights Reserved
Hiker’s Guide on How to Safely Cross a River
Below is a machine transciption of this episode (and there is bound to be loads of errors). I am currently traveling off grid and didn’t have a chance to work up the complete webpage before I left, so this is the best I could do in the meantime. Either check back later, or if you email me, I’ll write you back to let you know when I’ve got the post up. Thanks for your understanding! Kit
KTA
00:05 I had to get across the river. I lost my footing for a moment and found myself stalled in the middle of the deepest and fastest part of the stream. As I tried to get better footing the river current sweat feet from underneath me and I immediately fell face down into the river. I was immediately hit with a wave of cold from the water that had been ice nearly hours before I was swept downstream with my pack on. I was underwater and couldn’t preach. I tried unsuccessfully to get a toe hold on the river bottoms who would get on my feet. I realized I was in a very serious situation. No one knew where I was. I had no idea what was downstream. Was there a log or a pile of logs and rocks below me that I can get caught up in? Was my gear and my sleeping bag wet? Was I even going to be able to get out of this welcome
00:57 Welcome to the Adventure Travel Show podcast. I’m your host Kit Parks. The intro today was an excerpt I read from an article by the Pacific Crest Trail Association titled I was swept away crossing a river on the Pacific crest trail written by Charles Williams, who I did try to reach out to, but unfortunately it was not able to catch up with him prior to this recording. But I will put a link to his very fine article in the show notes and on the website for this episode. Today we’re going to be talking about the best practices to help you get across river safely. Believe it or not, that’s one of the most dangerous things that we do when we’re out in the wild. People might be afraid of heights or snakes or bites or the cold or the heat, but what gets us the most is crossing the rivers. So today we’re going to learn the best tips of how to do so safely. What we need to look out for ahead of time, what to do if something goes wrong and we slip and fall into the water and the things that we need to do to give us the best shot at getting to the other side quickly, efficiently, and safely. This is a super important episode that I hope you’ll share, so let’s get started.
02:07 Okay.
02:08 Like I said, many hikers are worried about bears, snakes, lightning, and why you should definitely need to know what to do when you encounter these. Your greatest risk of injury or worse is crossing rivers without a bridge. Did you know that the number one way that people die in the national parks in the U S is from drowning? It’s also one of the leading causes of death on the Pacific coast trail and to beat a dead horse, it is the number one way that we harm ourselves when we’re out in the wild. Before we begin, let’s talk a minute about rivers themselves.
02:41 Okay.
02:41 The river, think of the river. It’s something that striates into different horizontal currents. So try to picture a cake with different layers, several layers, and each layer instead of being cake is a moving current. The top layer or the icing is the fastest moving current. While the bottom layer where your feet are is the slowest. However, unlike the top icing, the side icing is also slower moving. And so what this means to you is that even though you might have your feet firmly planted on the riverbend, that stronger middle layer of the cake and even that top layer can still carry you away. And that’s what happened to Charles in the intro.
03:21 Okay?
03:22 And love you need to remember too, is because the sides are slower. You may not realize it until you’re out in the middle of the river, that it’s much faster and much stronger than you thought. Even with the tests that we’re going to be doing to see whether or not we think it’s safe to cross the river.
03:38 So the things we want to do, even before we even begin our hike is number one, let’s find out what the current water levels are. Were there any recent rains? How big is the snow melt runoff? You want to check with the parks of the Rangers, ask around with the locals. If you’re on the coastal areas, get a tide chart and when you’re deciding whether or not to cross a river, you need to consider the skill level and the comfort level of everyone in your group because the weakest member sets the tone and sometimes it’s just best to turn around or else wait until the water level subsides and conditions get better.
04:18 When we get to the river, what’s the next thing we want to look at? We want to consider hidden hazards. Submerge rocks and trees can be covered with moss and they’re really slippery, so you want to look, if you do slip, what is shortly downstream? Is there going to be a waterfall that you could possibly go over? I have a girlfriend that I and my hiking group, she lost one of her girlfriends that went over the fall. That’s the one that’s just after turtleback falls, which I have a great photo of me jumping up as a great fall. They have a little roped area. You’re not supposed to go past that. She was standing on the edge on the other side of that rope, slipped on a rock and over that waterfall she plunged to her death. So you want to see what’s further downstream. If things go wrong, what could happen to you?
05:02 Okay.
05:03 If you see there’s a waterfall, you may want to go further upstream or possibly even go past it, followed the river and go downstream and go across the river on the downside of the waterfall
05:14 [inaudible]
05:14 because if you fall and if you slip, you do not want to get carried over that fall. Look for big rapids and boulders. You don’t want to slip and get banged up or worse than there. What kind of river bed are you crossing? Are you looking at algae, cover rocks or sand? Obviously the algae rocks are going to add more risk, so you need to be especially cautious and you need to pay attention to where the river’s bending because if you slip and get carried downstream, look to see what’s down that corner because that’s where you’re liable to end up. Is it a pile of river debris?
05:51 Okay.
05:52 If you see a down tree or Bush in the stream, otherwise referred to as a strainer, you always want to stay downstream of that obstacle because if you should happen to fall in and hit the strainer, you’re going to find out why it’s called that it strains the water but not the people and makes you trapped and can suck you under. It’s an incredibly dangerous hazard. If you’re wearing convertible pants, you want to take off the lower legs, it’s going to give you less drag and it won’t be as cold when you do get across and if it’s really cold out, consider actually stripping down to your Andes so that you could have dry clothes to put on when you reach the other side,
06:33 if you have true hiking sandals, and by that I mean proper hiking sandals that are strapped securely around your foot and your ankle. You can put those on so your hiking shoes don’t get wet. Tie your hiking boots to the back of your pack or drip them around your neck. But remember they’re going to be clunking around and that can often make you a little bit off balance. Sometimes it’s safer just to walk through the water rather than boulder jump. You never want to cross a river and flip flops. The current can easily make them slip off your feet, causing you to slip and fall into the water.
07:05 And if you think, oh, I’ll just go barefoot, that’s not a good idea. Think again, you’re liable to cut your feet on the rocks. In the sticks, you’re better off to have what shoes and if you have to wear your hiking boots to cross the river, take out the soul so at least there’ll be dry on the other side. You can even take off your socks and keep those dry. You want to assess how deep is the river. You don’t want to forward any river with water higher than your knees. You might think to yourself, oh, I’m a great swimmer. Still it’s safer. Keep the water to your knees or below because the current can easily carry you away if you’re crossing waist deep or chest deep in the water. Remember that water levels are usually lower in the morning, especially before the sun is a chance to melt more snow if you’re in that kind of an environment.
07:53 Okay.
07:53 And also if you get up and hike earlier in the day, you’re going to be less likely to miss afternoon thunderstorms that can add more water to the rivers.
08:01 Yeah,
08:02 deeper water that’s less than the height of your knees is often safer than shallower, but faster moving water
08:09 [inaudible]
08:09 and you can often take your time more in the deeper water and counter-intuitively should you fall, you’re actually more buoyant in deeper water. Consider also the physics of moving water. Water is heavy and it weighs 62.4 pounds per cubic foot. Water pressure increases with the square of its velocity. Oh yeah, that’s really mathy. Mathy. What does that mean to us in everyday terms? That means that the shallow water is moving twice as fast as the deeper water. It’s exerting four times the force. If it’s 10 times faster than it’s a hundred times as forceful. Think about that, so that’s why the shallower, faster moving mortar can be more treacherous for rivers change and so sometimes the trail may not meet the river at the optimal place to cross. When you come to a river, you want to scout out the river up and down for the best place to cross avoid turns in the river as the water moves were quickly there.
09:12 See if there’s something risky shortly downstream that would indicate that you shouldn’t be crossing there at all. Say the waterfall we talked about that you could tumble over should you slip. Ideally you want to look for a vantage point above the river so you can get a bird’s eye view to make your assessment. Also, pay attention to places that you can get out of the river view. If you do happen to fall, you always want to try to have a backup plan. Be ahead of time because you’re not going to have time to think and all the chaos should you fall in.
09:39 Okay.
09:40 If there’s a bend in the river below, be sure to scout both sides of the river because if you fall, the water may carry you to the bank side that you didn’t plan on going to the water will most likely leave you on the outside of the bend. Remember, you can look to to see what is the river depositing at that bend because there’s a chance that you could end up there. You want to make sure you can get out wherever it is that you want to cross. Are there steep banks that you’re, they’re gonna be difficult to get out. You want to be very patient and choosing where to cross and even deciding whether you should indeed cross your life might very well depend on that decision and if you’re scouting the sides of the river off the trail for safer place to cross, you also need to be aware that this includes its own hazards of falling and injury. When you leave the trail, make a good mental note of the trail so you can find your way back. You don’t want to get lost and for that also refer you to episode number six of what to do if you get lost in the woods.
10:42 Don’t forget you’ve got a map. Look at your map. Are there any forks ahead that might have less water? Would they be a better place to cross?
10:49 Right?
10:49 You want to check to see how fast the water is moving. You can test the river current by tossing a stick and seeing how long it takes to move down the stream. The current can be really deceptive if you toss that stick in and that stick moves faster than your walking pace. The currents too strong, late spring and early summer or when current levels from snow melt are particularly strong. Remember the icing on the sides of the cake. What you see with your little test is the river at its slowest. Also, pay attention to what happens to the stick. If you’re stick, get snagged or pulled under, that’s liable to be what happens to you should you fall. You can tell the shallower water by indications, a little rippling water over boulders. Eddies are formed above larger boulders and they can slow down the water. Making for a good place to cross, however, do not cross downstream of large boulders as you can get caught in some dangerous swirling currents. Likewise, don’t cross just downstream of the waterfall as they’re all Scobey some currents that can pull you under. You want to choose an exit point on the other side of the stream. Avoid places that you’re going to have to scramble up. I remember you might be pretty tired, and because of that, you might slip and then fall back down to the river.
12:12 You also don’t want to try to climb up some undercut banks.
12:15 [inaudible]
12:16 so you’re gonna look for an exit point on the straight part of the river and not on the bend. And just while we’re talking about it too, as you’re crossing the river, you want to keep your eye on your exit point. So you’ve done all your scouting, you’ve done your prep work, you’ve done your little tests of the water. Now when you’re crossing the river, you’ve chosen a location, you’re going to choose a location where the river straight, not at the bend. So you’ve got a straight part of the river. Now what? Now? You want to look at the width of the river because actually the wider part of the river at the current is usually slower moving than the sh the skinnier part to the river. So you want to look for the wider section, even though that might look a little bit more intimidating, it’s often safer.
12:59 Yeah,
12:59 so you want to think straight, wide, shallow, so the straight are part of the river is going to be less movement. The wider part is less current and shallow below the knees, so straight, wide and shallow. Only cross it when it’s above your knees when there’s little to no current unless you plan on swimming across the river, which I’ll talk about that a little bit later.
13:23 [inaudible]
13:24 and the streets stretches to also offer the benefit. Usually have a consistent current
13:30 [inaudible]
13:31 be on the lookout for something. When the river breaks into channels, they call them braided channels. These channels often have debris, rock sandbars that you can rest on and on. The widest part often dissipate some of the force of the water I Breda channel could be a great place to cross.
13:47 Okay.
13:48 Also be on the lookout for sandbars where you might see some animal tracks. That’s usually a great indicator that that’s a good place to cross the animals know best, so you’ve chosen your location, you already scout out everything. Now make sure you unbuckle your pack, both the hip and the sternum straps. Because if you slip, you do not want your pack to drag you under or get caught and then help to drown you. However, now that it’s loose, it’s gonna make your pack a little bit more unstable as the weight shifts about while you’re crossing the river. You also want to loosen your shoulder straps a little bit to make it a little bit easier to remove. If you do fall, it’s better to lose your pack than your life. One option is you can tie your rope to your pack, so if you do fall in, do you have a better chance of recovering it, but you still need to be prepared to let go of the rope. If the current or snagged pack starts pulling you under, found your place, you’ve unbuckled your pack. Number three when you enter the water you want to up stream and then you shuffle your feet rather than stepping so you’re sliding your feet across the river bed rather than stepping in a slightly downstream manner at a roughly 45 degree angle shuffling rather than lifting your feet, it’s going to help prevent you from slipping on an algae covered rock or submerged tree trunk. This will also scoot away any underwater critters that you might accidentally step on and that could spook you causing you to fall.
15:22 Number four, you want to use a trekking pole. Poles are great not just for hiking, especially when going downhill, but they can turn your body into a more stable tripod when crossing a river. If you don’t want to carry poles, find a sturdy stick to use on crossing. My polls have saved me countless falls in and out of the water. If you use a hiking pole, then you will always have one foot firmly planted plus the pole firmly planted. As you shuffle the other foot you face up stream and plant the pole in the stream. The current’s going to lodge it into something. And if you find that that small tip keeps getting caught, a sturdy stick might be a better option for you. Remember to only move one foot at a time and don’t cross your legs so you can get tangled and tip over.
16:12 You’re shuffling was south, but placement sideways, facing upstream, moving about a 45 degree angle downstream, face up, move down, slight angle. Remember the tripod, keep the tripod and you want to have always two sod points of contact on the river floor before moving the third so you’ve got two feet and a stick do of those should always be firmly planted before you move the third [inaudible]. And if the current is not too strong, you might like using both poles or too sturdy sticks. But if it’s really strong, it’s probably gonna be all you can do to handle just keeping the one pole under control. And if that little trekking pole basket causes you some drag, you might want to take it off.
16:57 Number five. If you’re lucky enough to see the bottom of the river, you can look a few steps ahead for smoother bottoms. If the water is silty toss a rock, does it make that kerplunk sound? The water might be deeper than you think. And if your rock swims a little bit before it sinks, you might be about to enter some Kurt that’s much stronger than you think. Remember, the slower moving sides of our cake icing. As you get in the middle, you might find a much stronger current six if there’s more than one of you. Again, with your packs loosened, hug each other’s waist and form a line and cross the river together in a sideways shuffle. To do so, you want to put the strongest person in, position him or her towards the furthest upstream and secure their position with a sturdy pole when the leaders firmly established person number, hugs, leaders’ waist, and then person number three, et Cetera, et cetera. As you work on down the chain, this later is creating an eddy like the big boulder we talked about and it makes it easier for the others behind to follow. So the group working together shuffles across the stream.
18:08 When your group has the opportunity, you should practice this on shallower, safer stream so you get it down pat. When it comes to a little bit deeper, stronger stream. Another group crossing technique uses the people crossing, forming themselves into a tripod. The group forms a triangle facing each other with the strongest person entering the water first. They each hold their neighbors waste the weaker people away from the point of the triangle. So you want to put them in the middle of the sides and again, you’re usually going to be more stable holding each other’s waists rather than their shoulders. The strongest person takes the lead and as the front point of the tripod breaking the current, then he or she plants a pole or stick firmly in the ground and on the leader’s count, everyone takes a step together and once firmly establish the leader calls out another step and another step together, the group diminishes a lot of the current. If you’re in a group and people are crossing Solo, consider having somebody downstream ready to toss a rope if they fall in. But if the current is so swift that you actually expect people to fall in, perhaps you shouldn’t be crossing it in the first place.
19:21 Okay.
19:22 Sometimes a stronger, more experienced hiker can cross the river, secure a rope on the crossing bank, come back over and secure another road there so that the group can hold onto the rope for additional support. Strong person, of course, would then go back and collect the rope afterwards. If the rope is strong enough. You can also use the rope as kind of like a zip line to transfer your packs.
19:44 Okay.
19:45 But caution, caution, caution, do not tie people together with a rope. If somebody falls in, it could drag down others to a tragic end. If you use a rope, people are just to be holding onto it, not tied to it.
19:59 Right.
19:59 And don’t wrap your hands even around it. I actually had a girlfriend I grew up with was holding onto the waterski rope and she wrapped it around her hands and when she fell, it literally pulled off all of her fingers. So just grab onto it. Don’t wrap it around your hands.
20:16 Okay.
20:17 If you’re hiking solo and you’re a little dicey, you look twitchy about a river. Consider waiting until other hikers come along so that you can forge the river together. And that adds a higher safety level for all of you. If you’re crossing and now the water’s getting deeper than your knees, think about returning to the bank and trying either a better spot or waiting for the water levels to lower.
20:41 Yeah.
20:41 Some strong swimmers may consider swimming across a river while not recommended. If you choose to do so, you must choose a deep spot with minimal current, the little current that’s there, it’s still gonna feel pretty strong on the Appalachian trail. Folks used to have two Ford across the Kennebec River, but there was a tragedy there once when a woman did unfortunately drown. So now there’s a ferry system that runs, I believe it’s twice a day as I think a guy in a canoe comes in, carries you across the river and safety. But before that, for the most part, people had to swim across. The only time I ever had to swim in a river like that was when my sister Tara and I were in Costa Rica rafting, the Macquarie River. There was this big rock that we jumped off of and so our instructions were jump off the rock and then swim as fast as we could over to the left bank.
21:32 And I was shocked at how fast that river was moving here. We’d been rafting it all morning and you don’t realize the power of that river. And in fact it was funny. Fortunately Terry’s is fast swimmer because she forgot when she got out to swim to left bank and they fortunately threw a rope and all that cause apparently some rapids were coming up ahead, but everything was fine. But again, the main thing I want to emphasize is it didn’t look like it was moving that fast. But once I was in I was like, whoa. It was carrying us really fast. And when I got to that bank I was exhausted. Remember I had a life jacket on to help me. You can learn about that whole adventure is episode number 15 of the actor travel adventures podcast. And I’ll put links in the show notes and on the webpage and the webpage for this’ll be adventure travel show, podcast.com/river so if you decide you’re going to swim across the river, you must also be a very strong swimmer and have thoroughly scouted out the hazards ahead.
22:25 You’re going to need to remove your pack, consider inflating your mattress pad and using that as a raft for your backpack, your important stuff you already should have in dry sacks. And then I also line my whole interior of my pack with a heavy duty compactor trash bag that I’d twist up. And then I fold it over onto itself and then twist, tie that together. That keeps everything nice and dry, although probably not if it gets submerged. So if you’ve got your important gear, like your sleeping bag and all that, and dry bags and a compact bag, you gotta be in pretty good shape, particularly if you use your mattress pad raft. So if you’re swimming, you want to choose where you want to land on the other side and do a little bit of mental math to figure out the current and the distance.
23:06 So you cross aiming upstream. This is called ferring across a river. So let’s say your math calculations are really off. What’s the downside for you if you land away further downstream? Remember, look for the hazards. So regardless of whether you’re swimming or forging a river, you’ve gotta be mindful of Hyperthermia. If the water’s cold, you could be putting yourself at risk. You want to know the signs and treatments, which I’ll leave that for a separate episode. Oh, I’ve learned how to shuffle across a river and swim across a river. But one of my all time favorite ways to get across a stream. Very rarely a river, usually just a stream is taken advantage of the natural features that are available to me. This includes things like boulders and fallen trees when I think it’s safe to do so. I try to keep my feet dry.
23:55 Using the natural features is great. And like I said, I use it an awful lot, but the most important thing is is to think before you go, what is the downside? If you shimmy across that tree or walk across that tree or jump boulder to boulder to cross that stream, if you fall in just a quick second slip of the footwork, what could happen? Are there rocks you could hit your head on? Are there sticks that could impale you? How high above the water are you when you fall? Is there one of those nasty strainers downstream that you could get caught in? And let’s talk for a minute about tree bridges. Sometimes you’ll see a nice fallen tree going across that stream. You’re like sweet. If it’s got tree bark, that’s going to give you better traction than a Barclays tree, which could be slippery if you decide to walk across a tree. It’s recommended that you walk sideways and keep your eyes moving and not focused on a fixed point and that’ll help you prevent vertigo. And actually if I come to a tree bridge, I prefer to just scoot in my butt and just shimmy across.
24:58 If you see a log jam where a bunch of trees are all crammed together and think that that would be a great way to cross. Think again. All right. When multiple trees are locked together from flooding, let’s say flooding knocked down a whole bunch of dead trees or whatever, it looks stable but you don’t know for sure and if you jump on it and you put your weight in a tree that turns out it can move, you can slip between them and get stuck. Plus let’s say that the trees are appended so you see these large root balls, they could be another problem as you grab onto one to get a little bit of balancing all that, that can dislodge a whole bunch of dirt and rocks above you that can fall on top of you. So just avoid those just to be in the safe side.
25:36 They could be really treacherous. Boulder hopping, this is usually the way that I cross most streams. I go in and this is when you see the rocks on top of the stream and you just kind of tap dance the crown across the river. So this is what I probably use the most. But keep in mind, I have really good balance and I have really good decision making when it comes to foot placement. When I’m hiking, I just intuitively seem to know where to put my feet. Some people don’t. So when you’re going to boulder hop, pay attention, what’s the downside? If you misstep or lose your balance? Is it safer to boulder hop or just to slog through the river? Often slogging through is the safer option. And if they’re dissimilar heights, you’re in a try to jump up to a boulder rather than down because the momentum actually might be a little bit harder to control.
26:27 Think about it. Gravity might give you a little bit more quote unquote help than you need. So jumping up, you actually have a little bit more stability. And also when I’m doing the boulder hopping, I’m doing so on dry boulders that don’t have any allergy. I’d try to avoid stepping on submerged boulders because even if they look algae free, they’re usually still a little bit slippery since they’d been under water. And you’re already getting your feet wet. So you might as well just shuffle across the riverbed anyway. You think you’ve done everything right, everything’s gone great, and you step on this one boulder, but it moves and you fall. So what do you do in this or in any of the other things we’ve talked about today? What do you do if you fall in the river? Number one, you gotta be prepared to unload your pack. Yes, I know that hurts painfully. You’ve already unbuckled and loosened it, right? You do not want your pack to drag you under.
27:18 I’m sure you listened to episode number four about how to pack your backpack. And I know we’ve already covered how to keep everything all nice and waterproof. So I know you’ve done that, but let’s say you have to drop your pack. You can often find it at the next bend in the river. If not, you could be screwed. So what does that mean for you? Where are you if you lost your pack? Is that a life threatening situation? Consider that before you cross a river that you’re not sure about, but remember, always better your pack than your life.
27:52 Okay?
27:55 All right. Let’s say the worst happens, number two, there’s rapids and you’re swept downstream. So what do you do? You position yourself that your feet are taking the brunt of the initial impacts. Your feet are facing downstream. So you’ve got to protect your head. So you want to float on your back with your feet pointing downstream and then try to aim and use your arms and all that to aim for the shore or calm shallow area for you to catch your breath and to regroup and hopefully you’ll be able to recover your pack. And here’s something else I want you to think about. Let’s say you’re doing a hike and you’re doing an out and back, meaning you have to cross the same river back on your return mate, no to where you crossed and how long it took you to do so. So you allow plenty of time for your return hike. Don’t forget that the river levels and the currents, the speed can change base on the snow mount and rainfall. So what may have been a nice calm river you crossed today, a few days from now after a heavy rainfall or a lot of snow melt could be dangerously impassable upon your return. What’s your plan B in case you can’t save the crossing for a while? What if you have to stay there for a few days? Do you know where the nearest bridges and how far it is to get there?
29:08 The most important thing you need to pack whenever you head outdoors is your brain. So bubble carry your head with you and don’t hesitate to call it a hike and turn back or delay. The crossing perhaps will be calmer in the morning. My rule of thumb is if I’m not sure I should cross, that’s a pretty darn good indicator that I shouldn’t cross. It should be crystal clear to you that say for you to cross, if not either weighted out or turned back. I put together a checklist of what we talked about today that will be available in the monthly newsletter that goes out to anybody that subscribes and you can always find how to do that at adventure travel show, podcast.com or you can always email me@kittatactivetroubledventures.com some parting thoughts. I love the outdoors as much as you do, but we want to do it safely.
30:07 Have you ever fallen crossing a river? I’ve been lucky actually. I’d never have a fallen lots of times on the trail, but never in a river. So if you have, I’d like to hear what happened to you and, and do you think that what we’ve covered today was helpful or would have been helpful for you? Like I said, this is the most dangerous thing that we face when we’re out hiking in the wild. So if you have hiking buddies, please make sure that they get a copy of this podcast so that they know what to do. Even if they say, oh, I know everything wanted to do. There’s probably one or two tips here that they didn’t know that might be helpful for them in the future. Next up on the show is the big debate, hiking boots versus hiking shoes. What’s the difference? When do you wear what and how to pick the right shoe for you? And next up on the act of troubled ventures podcast, I have a very special episode covering a little visited range in the Rockies called the mummy range. And after looking at the photos and talking to our guests, I definitely put that on my list, so I’m looking forward to sharing that with you.
31:15 I appreciate you listening. Until next time, this is kit parks and venture on.